Monday 19 March 2012

If you want it then you better put a ring on it!




Here’s a little story to warm the heart: Boy meets girl; boy takes girl out on several dates; boy has awesome make out session with girl; girl tells him in the midst of said session that she is a virgin and doesn’t believe in sex before marriage.



True story. Happened to a friend of a friend of mine. Now while I don’t know the girl, I’m just going to assume for the sake of this article that she has chosen to be celibate before marriage because of her religion. Before you roll your eyes and think “Here goes Miss on another anti-religion rant” we should examine the facts. And we should examine them in my favourite way- through dot points!

-          Fact 1: Marriage is not originally a religious institution. By this I mean that anthropologists have teased out that historically, in the societies where monogamy exists (most societies, and I will concentrate on these for the purpose of this article) people were not encouraged to marry because of religious convictions but to secure land and resources, and to subjugate women (okay, the last on I just added, but makes sense, no?) People who did not own resources did not tend to marry, as there was no point, until the rise of Chrisitanity, when marriage and religion were interlinked.

-          Fact 2: Of course, linked to the above is the fact that no sex is a great contraceptive! It doesn’t do to pop out mouths to feed when you haven’t secured yourself a way to ensure they will be able to be provided for.

-          Fact 3: From male’s point of view, marriage is the best way to ensure that the child you are helping to raise is indeed your genetic material, and you’re not just helping a free loader!



But these facts make no difference, in the end. These days marriage is perceived as a religious institution, and as a human rights advocate, I believe in freedom of religious expression. I’m not going to go up to this woman and say to her “You’re an idiot, you have to have sex before marriage”. What I’m concerned about is whether the act of holding off telling someone she was dating was moral or not. I’m going to argue that it’s not.



Allowing someone to begin to form an emotional and sexual attachment before informing them that you will not have sex with them until marriage is not fair on the other party. In my head I came up with a neat little analogy. Say you’re a strict vegan. And the thought of having any animal products in your house is morally reprehensible. If you’re advertising for a new flat mate, you would clearly state on the advertisement “people with a strong commitment to vegan lifestyle only” or something to that effect. You wouldn’t just let anyone in, then inform them once they’ve moved all their junk in “oh by the way, don’t you dare cook meat/eggs/cheese/fish in this household”. You can’t expect someone to conform to your views after they’ve entered into the contact unknowingly. If veganism is that important to you, you would be upfront about it- sure you may have to wait a little longer to get the room filled, and you might not get along with the person so well, but they have the same values as you. If you’re celibate, same goes- you may have to wait a little longer to find someone who’s willing to not have sex before marriage, and you’re certainly narrowing your choices so might not click with them as well personality wise, but you share the same values. You can’t expect someone who doesn’t hold those values to conform to them, no matter how much they “like” you. People were born to eat meat!!!



As for the guy in our story? He has decided to keep seeing her, because she’s “cute”. Call me pessimistic, but this is pretty much code for “until I get a better offer”. The end.

5 comments:

  1. Agree 100%. Not much more to say.

    I think this is why bloggers rarely make posts that are logical, and don't throw in a few crazy statements (i.e. trolling). Nothing left for people to rage about.

    I like the vegan example. Can I suggest a topic for the next one.

    How come when you invite vego people over for dinner/bbq it is expected that you provide an option for them. But when you go to theirs they rarely/never supply a meat (or flesh as they love to call it) dish?

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  2. Not saying I agree with this, but I imagine the argument vegos would make re: not providing you with carcass would be "We don't eat meat for ethical reasons, so we don't have to provide for you. You don't have the same argument for being omnivorous, so you have to make me a salad". Stupid hippies. People who don't eat meat just because they don't like it will usually be happy to provide a meat alternative.What I don't get is the people who are vego/vegan for ethical reasons, who go to a bbq, and complain that their stupid vege patty be placed on a part of the grill that hasn't touched meat. The animal that's been turned into a snag isn't about to be resusitated, may-as-well get your piece of cardboard to soak up some tasty meat juice.

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  3. Like you, I’m not too keen on religion but if people are religious and keep it to themselves, I have no problem with that. You could argue in this sense she is forcing it on someone else but sounds like she has simply stated what her beliefs are.

    While I don’t know the full story in the case, I don’t agree with you here.

    I reckon its okay to wait a few dates before telling him. Seems like a strange thing to bring up on a first date. I think its alright to let them get to know you a bit and get comfortable with you before you ask them to make that choice.

    Would you expect a single parent to mention this before the first date?
    What about someone with an STD or some sort of serious illness?
    I think this is the same sort of issue as its going to be a key factor in whether the other person sticks with the relationship.

    I think one of the key things in judging whether she is reasonable is how she would react if he said ‘sorry I’m not prepared to wait’ ie
    - Would she accept it as she has her views but he is entitled to his own; or
    - Would she bag him out as a jerk


    Like you, I’m not too keen on religion but if people are religious and keep it to themselves, I have no problem with that. You could argue in this sense she is forcing it on someone else but sounds like she has simply stated what her beliefs are.

    While I don’t know the full story in the case, I don’t agree with you here.

    I reckon its okay to wait a few dates before telling him. Seems like a strange thing to bring up on a first date. I think its alright to let them get to know you a bit and get comfortable with you before you ask them to make that choice.

    Would you expect a single parent to mention this before the first date?
    What about someone with an STD or some sort of serious illness?
    I think this is the same sort of issue as its going to be a key factor in whether the other person sticks with the relationship.

    I think one of the key things in judging whether she is reasonable is how she would react if he said ‘sorry I’m not prepared to wait’ ie
    - Would she accept it as she has her views but he is entitled to his own; or
    - Would she bag him out as a jerk



    Re the Vego thing:
    The difference is you're not going outside your beliefs to serve a salad (unless you're opposed to that sort of thing, in which case- good on you!) but they're going outside their beliefs to serve you meat.

    Now don't get me started on people who say they're vegetarian but eat chicken or fish!!!!

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  4. Thanks for the input Kymbo.

    1) YES I would TOTALLY expect to know whether someone has kids before a first date!

    2) STIs are different as you can still have sex, just protected.

    3) Serious illness, well it would depend on what the illness is. If you have epilepsy and are not taking medication and there is a strong possibility you are going to have a seizure during the date then YES you should tell them!

    4) In regards to her reaction if he says no, as I said I don't know her. I believe HIS main concern is that she works with him and they both have mutual friends around the office- he doesn't want people at work thinking he's an asshole who just wanted to sleep with her. Which brings me back to my original reaction when this story was relayed to me "Haha, don't shit where you eat buddy!"

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  5. So you talk for a few minutes to a guy in a bar and he asks you out... You really expect him to add: hey before you say yes, you should know that I'm a single dad and I have cancer (Cancer? Yes, head cancer)?

    Where do you draw the line about raising negative things that may affect someone's decision to date you?
    Hey, I vote for the one nation party
    Hey, I've got a hairy back etc

    You're not meant to know everything about everyone the second you start dating them.

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